tv Piers Morgan Live CNN April 24, 2013 12:00am-1:00am PDT
this is "piers morgan live." we have breaking news on the boston bombings, including these incredible new pictures showing the suspects exchanging in gunfire with police. these photos give us the pictures of a shootout that led to this the death of the older brother and ultimately the capture of the younger one. also his presence at the hospital is creating more suffering. at the same time an official says the suspects may be motivated because of the wars in iraq and afghanistan. also controversial over the burial of tamerlan tsarnaev.
they are distancing themselves for the bomber and from dagestan. also this is on the day of two funerals for two victims. 8-year-old martin richard killed in the bombing and m.i.t. officer sean collier who was shot by the alleged bombers. and we have jake tapper with the latest on the investigation and nic robertson with what the suspects' mother is saying. jake, bring me up to speed on the latest news. >> reporter: well, piers we told you yesterday that he was cooperating with investigators. we talked about there was a motivation. that the brothers thought islam was being attacked and needed to defend it.
a u.s. government official told me today that one of the reasons in the justification, in the motivation, according to investigators is that dzhokhar said the wars in iraq and afghanistan were part of why they carried out this senseless act. so this is just what he is telling investigators. it is to be taken with something of a grain of salt and no one obviously is just automatically believing him, but that's one of the reasons. we also found out a little bit more about the self radicalization that we talked about yesterday, piers. that the idea that the brothers, according to dzhokhar, became aware over the internet. he said it is likely that the sermons of cleric anwar al-zawahiri were part of this. >> and what will happen in the next few days? his condition is deteriorating
rapidly, how long can they continue to interrogate him for? >> well, they can interview him as many times as he is willing to do so. he obviously has an attorney right now. i think one of the big considerations right now is whether or not he's going to stay at beth israel hospital. a lot of the patients there who are his victims and who are family members of the victims are objecting to the fact that he is at the hospital. so right new according to what the district attorney told ashleigh banfield, they are thinking of moving him to a different state facility. they can interview him as often as he is willing to be interviewed. >> you had a pretty dramatic interview with a man called andrew kitsenberg. he took photographs of the initial gunfight with police from his home, overlooking the battle in watertown. tell me about that, jake. >> well, this is just remarkable. i mean, imagine being woken up
in the middle of the night due to gunfire and you look out the window and see a shootout going on. and the shootout between the brothers and the police. and at one point he was showing me a photograph and he was detailing the third pressure cooker bomb that the tsarnaev brothers had with them. let's take a listen. >> what the red dot is highlighting here is that pressure cooker bomb. that's what they took out of a backpack, put right at their feet, and i had a very clear view on that device. >> and did they throw it? how did it explode? we see the stain on the street where it exploded. >> i actually saw them light the bomb and a spark from it. as soon as i saw the spark i just hit the ground. i got on the floor in the corner of my room.
>> that was ann andrew watching what he could and taking cover when the brothers flew a treasure cooker bomb. really remarkable pictures and we're glad he shared the photographs with him. he ask that anyone watching these photos donate to the one fund which is helping the victims of this attack here. >> thank you very much indeed. cnn's interview with the suspect's mother was emotional. before we get to the mother's interview, what is the mood like in bag stan? how do they feel that the two boys for the area have admitted the -- or allegedly committed the atrocity. >> reporter: there seems to be a lot of denial going on here. and they don't want to discuss what may have been done. it's sort of a closed community, if you will, in that respect to outsiders.
but i think the general feeling is surprise. it's shock. it's disassociation. it's disbelief. but the overriding feeling is a lot of people are in denial. how could they kill innocent people? >> right, and this is led by the mother who gave us extraordinary interview with cnn. tell us about this. >> yeah, she is. she is really being loud, incredibly outspoken. she was shocked at seeing the images of her son, tamerlan in particular, when he was blooded after that fire fight. but what she said very clearly now as someone that is incredibly strong, accusing u.s. officials of killing one son and now saying -- listen to what she says. i don't care if they kill my other son.
>> they are going to kill him. i don't care. my oldest one has been killed so i don't care. i don't care if my youngest one is going to be killed today. i want the world to hear this. and i don't care if i am going to killed too, okay. and i will say allahu akbar. >> reporter: this is a mother who is incredibly angry right now, who is coming to terms with what has happened and as you heard there, just in denial, piers. >> you can understand she is completely grief stricken and it would appear deeply shocked by what happened. she claims to be in daily contact with tamerlan at least. >> reporter: indeed. the fbi, we understand, are sending a team here who will try
to talk with her. she left her apartment today for the first time with journalists waiting outside. had a chance to see her escorted away bien unknown man taken to an unknown location. she for sure is going to be a very important part of any investigation. but in particularly tamerlan, who spent all that time here, piers. >> thank you very much indeed. and friends feel betrayed and confused and believe his older brother may have been to blame for his alleged role in the bombings. on the -- let me talk to you, if i may. you run an auto mechanic business. you lived opposite these brothers. how well did you know them?
>> the oldest one, probably eight years now. >> and the younger one? >> the younger one, i would say probably two years. >> now dzhokhar came to your shop on the afternoon after the bombing. is that correct? >> yes. >> yes, between 12 foot to 1:00 p.m. >> and he left a 2007 mercedes station wagon with you two weeks before. he came back after the bombing to ask for it back. did he explain why he needed it? >> no. for us i thought you know, probably, that whatever was upset. he was there for two weeks. and by asking him why. he just told he needs the car on the same date.
he did not want to wait for the repairs to be done. >> he would you describe his behavior? >> on tuesday was the first time that i see him acting the way he was acting. i spoke with him many times before. he was also very soft spoken and very kind and very nice. and soon i realized he was biting his fingernails a little bit. he was looking up over his shoulders. >> did he pay you for the repair works to the car? >> no. he didn't pay me. but i never did no work. i just removed the rear bumper. go ahead and finish the job but they never punished the job. >> the older brother came to your shop about two months ago. how would you describe him? >> he never talked with me about
anything. he was always straight forward. he asked how much it would be to pay for the bumper. >> and you're a proud bostonian. you must be pretty shocked that the brothers that you knew well for a number of years have been caught up in an appalling thing. >> i still can't believe it. i still can't believe it. i'm sad. i'm mad. i'm angry. and kind of feeling guilty, you know. because if i knew what i know today back on tuesday, you know, everything could be different. that's why i am feeling guilty with myself. i'm definitely feeling guilty. >> i can understand. there's no reason to feel guilty at all. you have no reason to know this. >> -- save another life. >> i can understand why you feel that way.
i do appreciate you joining me. thank you very much. steve, you played soccer with dzhokhar tsarnaev for a couple of years, i think. i would you describe him? >> very kind. pretty much similar to every college friend i have. like no different than any other kid. >> this is what all his friends are saying. particularly the students alongside him in the last couple of years and yet clearly there was another side to this boy which turned him into an alleged mass killer. anything in his behavior pattern in the last few months say to you something is not quite right here. >> i saw him two weeks before the incident. he was the same as always. kind. we were playing a soccer game on
xbox. nothing out of the ordinary to be honest. >> can you believe that he's capable of doing what he has alleged to be done? >> it's really hard to think about it. you never think one of your friends can just become a terrorist any time. it makes you think of all of your friends all together, if any of them could do anything different than what you know of them. someone so normal that is your friend to becoming a terrorist. >> dzhokhar was very active on social media, as were many of his students. i'm sure you were, too. was there anything about his twitter feed, the people he followed, facebook friends, anything of a religious nature? a clinical nature? >> i know he followed islamic stuff on twitter. outside of that, that is like literally the only thing linking
anything towards radicalism or any type of terrorism at that point. one of the more shocking aspects of his behavior after the bombing is he carried ongoing back to the university and leading a perfectly normal life. you have a good friend who saw him in that period. what did he say about his demeanor? >> two of my friends saw him a the gym after the bombing at 9:00 or 10:00 at night, they said. one of them had a conversation with him about the bombing, in which he said pretty much he said that he was about any conversation that he had with anyone about the bombing. and he looked a little tired, but nothing out of the ordinary. >> quite extraordinary. thank you for joining me. >> no problem. >> up next, boston heroes. the man whose tip led to the boston arrest. that's coming up.
the night that it happened and he gave us a once removed version of events but it all sounded quite remarkable then and your interview with him, how did you find him? >> well, it was very simple. watertown is a great town in the area. i grew up in newton right near that. i decided i'm going to try to call the guy. i simply called the guy and he knew where i was. he had been around for a while. he wanted to return the phone call. so he returned the phone call. but the stepson told the story along the line that he is a very anal human being, and he really is because he's very detail oriented and that's why he found the guy. >> right, because he meticulously left the boat in a certain condition. when he was finally allowed back out by the authorities. let's take a listen to part of your interview with david henneberry that will explain exactly what we're talking about. >> i know people say there's blood on the boat. he saw blood and went in.
not true. >> not true? >> not true. >> the word is you saw the boat. you pulled back the wrapping. you saw a body. it moved and you called 911. >> oh, no, no. >> no? >> no, no. >> so he went to the garage and grabbed a stepladder. >> i got i think three steps up the ladder and i rolled it up and i could see through the shrink wrap. i look in the boat over here and on the floor and i see blood. >> a lot of blood? >> a good amount of blood. >> yeah. >> and my eyes went to the other side of the engine box. the engine box is in the middle. there was a body. >> and at that moment, what did you do? what were you thinking at that moment? >> oh my god. >> he couldn't see suspect number two's face. he was glad he helicopter see his face. >> i know i took three steps off the ladder. i don't remember stepping down off the ladder.
this hits you more afterward where you think my god, he probably slept last night. i don't know. it just -- it's surreal. >> in that instant police responded and he and his wife were taken away. >> people are calling you a national hero. >> the feel that were killed can get some -- you know, in many ways they do. >> they're not at peace. you know. >> extraordinary interview. and he's such a humble, nice guy, but very normal and clearly propelled by default into this totally abnormal world. >> here's the other part of it, too. when he got down off the ladder and called 911, he's on the phone and he's so detail oriented, he's on the phone with the 911 operator. the operator says can you see
him? he realizes he can't see behind the boat. he says i can't see behind the boat. he says, well, hang up. authorities will be right there. piers, he hung up. he went back outside. he checked the back of the boat. so he was not completely satisfied until he saw that the suspect was still in the boat and at that point in time, that's when the authorities arrived and that's when he was escorted out with his wife. >> that is true heroism. >> one of the many weird aspects of this is his boat's name was slip away 2. you couldn't make that up, could you. i said, you going to get another boat? he said absolutely. he doesn't want to do slip away. slip away is going to the fbi. but the next boat will be called slip away because she does her job. >> congratulations again. terrific interview. >> thank you. >> now to another hero. moments after the bombing, he
rescued victoria, who was seriously wound in the attacked. and today for the first time since the two were reunited. tyler, we spoke the other day and you hadn't met or spoke on the victoria, but you finally did today. what was the moment like for you? >> it was probably one of the most amazing spiritual moments of my life, piers. you walked in to see her at the hospital and what happened? >> we met. i walked into the room. she was sitting there. i was at a loss for words. which is not real common with me. i didn't know what to say. we kind of looked at each other and had another unspoken bond, unspoken connection. it was beautiful. she's an amazing girl. her family is amazing. i can't speak enough on how she gave me strength to help others out. >> she was injured by shrapnel
of the bombs and made a public appeal to find you. didn't know who you were but said this guy came along, shielded her, helped her, supported her, and shared stories of early experience. you told me about that the other night. it must have been quite a moment for both of you. did she thank you? >> yeah. she did thank me. and her family was very thankful. i'm just grateful for the opportunity to have helped out. it's been quite an experience. it's been a life changing experience. i think i know my course in life is to help others out and to just continue to do the next right thing and all things will work out. >> how is victoria? how is she doing? >> she seems to be doing really well. she's in great spirits. i was told she wakes up smiling every day. she is super positive. it's unbelievable how positive
she stayed through this and how positive she was tonight. >> well, tyler, you're a great hero. one of many hero who is did exceptional things on this day. this is a lovely story that she appealed for you. it's great that you came forward and today you were reunited again. thank you again for the great service you showed. >> thank you, piers. thank you very, very much. >> great guy. next, another big story we're following. the stunning new twist in the ricin scare. the man accused of sending the poison laced letters to the president among others is free tonight. he's talking and joins me tonight coming up. >> i had never heard of ricin or whatever. i thought they said rice so i said, i don't even eat rice.
a major twist in the case of ricin poison letter sent to president obama. charges were dropped today after a u.s. attorney announced new information has been uncovered. authorities are trying to determine if the real suspect was set up. joining me now on the phone is kevin curtis. thank you for joining me. a quite extraordinary twist today. you have gone from being the man alleged to try to poison the president of the united states to a completely innocent man in a couple of days. how do you feel about this? >> i'm overwhelmed. im extremely happy to be vindicated and out and able to see my kids. i haven't seen them yet. i've been staring at four walls for days isolated. >> you were sitting there for
seven days, as you say, staring at four walls in custody. had you been convicted of this crime you probably would have never came out of there. how do you feel? what were you think? >> you just said it. i kept thinking, this is serious. it took 24 hours for me to be educated and informed on the actual charge. i heard the word ricin for the first time in my life by a federal agent of homeland security while being interrogated and i thought he said rice for about an hour. i said, i don't even eat rice. i'm not a rice lover. and they told me, you know what it's about. you know what you did. i'm standing in front of my home with my little puppy moo cow and i'm completely overwhelmed at
the hooded machine gun guys. it looked like the scene out of a movie. i was just overwhelmed. i kept asking what is ricin. what did i do. they kept on, you know what you did. you know what this is about. don't try to act with us. i was already assumed guilty before i was told what it was about. but that's one thing that has been bothering me. we're in the united states of america. we're innocent until proven guilty is what i've been told my whole life. i completely felt i was guilty until i could prove my innocence. and i can't help but think now how many people are thrown in jail because circumstantial evidence and somebody can frame you that easily. >> let me come to that. the belief is that you were set up. do you have a suspicion as to who has done this to you? >> i do now. i didn't when it happened.
after the facts started coming in and my attorney was, you know, coming to me and asking me certain specific questions the dots starred to connect in my head, and started thinking that information that she would zoom out and leave me in jail and she would do her investigative work. christi mccoy, my attorney, was amazing. you know, in the jungle of law and court, you have monkeys. you have kangaroos and you have lions. she was the lion queen. she was just amazing. >> this story has elvis, ricin, jungles. it has ate ul. there is a serious aspect to this. whoever set you up was sending a deadly poise on the the president and senators and so on, when that person is caught, if they are caught, they will face potentially life imprisonment. this is actually very, very serious. the person you believe did this to you, why would they do that to you?
>> well, you know, i am an entertainer. i've been doing activism work in various areas of politics. i use the internet, e-mail and i've had meetings with other activists at my home over the years, and i am known for sort of an up in your face guy, but i'm quiet and reserved on one hand and i'm an entertainer on the other hand. but there's also a political side to me that was born. >> right. but kevin, this particular guide that you -- i think it's a man that you suspect, have you had an ongoing feud with him? >> yes. several years he's been showing up on my radar. people in town asking me, do you know this guy hates you? he has it out for you. i never knew why. i've asked a hundred people over the years. who is he? where did he come from? what is his agenda? why me? is it music related?
is iz martial arts? a waitress came to my house one night and said this guy came in. i waited on him. he began asking me questions about you. i said you were on my myspace page and he said he knew you were. oh, he's watching me. >> have you met this person? >> i have. i ran into him at a local restaurant a few years back. >> and was it a hostile encounter? >> pardon me? >> was it a hostile encounter? >> oh, no. he began sweating. it was a very cool day, and he began sweating like crazy. his face turned blood red, and he took off his jacket and loosened his tie, and i asked him, i said, so you've got this newspaper. you sent out letters to my home and said you would like to
interview me for the newspaper you own. and a free publication in mississippi to all the the restaurants an businesses. i say, well, here i am if you want to interview me about this controversy story about how i found body parts in the refrigerator and you will public my story, but when i called him out on it he was like, no i, can't touch it. i'm in politics and running for district 16. >> the more you speak about this, the more bizarre it gets. we now have body parts added to the mix of elvis, jungles, ricin and final question. do you expect this person to now be interviewed by authorities? have they led you to believe that will happen? >> to my understanding he already is and his home is quarantined by the federal agent. >> and you must feel pretty relieved tonight. >> oh, it's like a train has been lifted off of my shoulders, sir. >> will you be singing this weekend?
are you performing? >> i'm going to be on "good morning america" in the morning. i'm going to memphis, tennessee. there are a few other shows. people are calling about publishing my book and my music. i have slept six hours in five days. right now i want to find my dog moo cow and see my kids. >> i don't blame you. it must have been hell on earth. i'm glad it worked out and you can get on with your life. thank you for joining me. >> thank you so much. >> joining me now is author of "the al qaeda factor." cnn contributor and operative robert bayer and attorney allen let me start with you, if i may. the new york city police department. a lot of growing belief in some
way the fbi dropped the ball in this investigation. that they had this guy on their sights. russian authorities to interview them. hen he wept back to russia for a mystery six months they lost track of it. >> yeah. i think it's one of the issues where one has to evaluate the set of facts. >> knowing this ving had been identified by the russians as an individual that they were concerned about. travel overseas to a zone of conflict and coming back to the united states and on his youtube page which i have looked at, you can see the different videos he identified as liking and certain extremist clerics who he identified as liking. when you put that set of facts together plus adding that friends and family saw him change before his eyes. he gave up boxing and other things. we would have been very reluctant to shut down an
investigation on someone like that. that's a very disconcerting set of facts. >> let's take a short break and come back. these are fascinating developments in the case. and next new details on what the bombing suspect is saying and what it could mean for the case against him. these cool sliders. what's this one do? i dunno. the name's bear, fancy bear. score planner is free to everyone. free score applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com fancy bear slider still in beta.
accomplices. a lot of questions remain. let me turn to you about this. because we have a clip to play. this is from the interview with channel 4 in the uk and also with the boy's mother. listen to this. >> i used to talk to them. they used to come to our house and like two, three times then my tamerlan used to tell me that he used to talk to them, too. they called me once and wanted his number. i used to get really worried because, you know, it is my kids and i am his mother, again. >> we don't know if she's telling the truth or not. if she is the fbi is in repeated contract with tamerlan and with her have questions to answer, don't they? >> oh, absolutely. i didn't think this at the beginning but someone did drop
the ball. when the russians come with a warning like this you have to take it seriously. the fact that the investigation wasn't left open, somebody made a mistake. they should have correlated the warning with youtube and telephone calls and the visit to dagestan. >> so they interviewed him. they interrogated him. there's nothing to worry about. when he leaves the country to go to russia, homeland security is alerted. after that we have no idea what happens to this guy. we don't know to this day whether he went to chechnya indefinitely or how many times, who he saw. we know something when on because when he came back he turned into a mass killer. what could that vi done legally?
>> well, they are concerned about surveying every suspicious person. if you got all the people who fit this category, you would have thousands of people who may be surveilled. but there are incremental things that the fbi can do without violating civil liberties. they can look at his youtube pages. they can watch him in public places. if it comes very extreme, they might have to get a warrant and a wiretap. they can try to use stings against him, send somebody saying, hey, do you want to do something terrible, i'm the guy who can get you the guns. there are calibrated responses. but the fbi certainly has the authority to at least watch and observe. if they didn't do that, then they have no excuse based on the civil liberties of law. a lot of conflict between the people and the police. a lot of bombings.
two, three, four, a month. all the time that he was back. he was in the middle of all this and we don't know enough information about what he was up to. who he was talking to. we don't know anything. the fbi had this guy right in their sights. >> well, time and time again when we look at terrorist subjects radicalized in the west one of the common features is the overseas travel. they may go overseas seeking sanction. they may go overseas for training. they may go overseas because they want to help the fighters. when the individuals come back from pakistan, afghanistan, yemen, somalia, chechnya, russia, that's a point that deserves more scrutiny, to find out what did the individuals do overseas. otherwise you may have a boston event. times square bombing. 2010. individual goes to pakistan. lost track on the radar.
comes back to times square in a vehicle to deliver an attack. >> it's much easier to do it if he's not a citizen. if he's not a citizen you have much more control over his travels. much more control over his ability to leave the country, his ability to return to the country. he has far fewer rights when it comes to being surveilled abroad. in the country he still has rights. you don't want to overdo the surveillance. there's a lot more that could have been done. >> is it plausible that these two brothers con conducted all of this on their own, as the younger brother is claiming to investigators. they got it off the internet, made these bombs. to me it all stinks to high heaven of some other entity being involved. they couldn't have just learned all this from the internet? >> absolutely not. delaying the police with bombs, making five of them go off, it just can't be done unless you're extraordinarily lucky.
somebody got some training, and i doubt it was in massachusetts. it was done in dagestan. they show you how to make detonators, put these things together, wire them. whether they directed them or not, i don't know. maybe they didn't know about the attacks. but these people were too good at what they were doing to consider it just luck. >> if the young man knows anything he can trade the information perhaps for some kind of a deal. now that hz highway lawyers involved he will probably remember more things he was able to tell. >> people who have done this before do not coolly walk around the bomb scene before the bombs went off i would attest. it's just not normal behavior. we will leave it there. thank you all very much indeed. coming up, the suspect with possible ties to a triple homicide, including his best friend. that's next. #%tia[
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and of those who were injured, 14 had amputations. important to remember that throughout this coverage. the bombing may have had a link to an unsolved triple murder. three victims were found in the gruesome crime scene in 2011. joining me now is boston globe investigative reporter. michael, an essential twist here. but the bottom line is this. do you believe there is any link between tamerlan between this killing and one of his best friends? >> i believe there's been enough information that has come to light that will cause investigators to take a really close, hard look at this. i believe investigators did not know or did not think was especially important back in 2011 when these three individuals were killed. >> three people, brendan mesh, raphael and eric weisman.
>> well, i think the belief at the time was that this was probably a drug-related murder. all three individuals had their throats slit and their bodies were sprinkled with marijuana, which seemed to be, perhaps, a message from more powerful drug dealers that didn't want anyone intruding on their turf. but now things look a little bit different. we now know that one of the victims, branden mess, was a close friend of tamerlan zarnyev, which would have been the tenth anniversary on the world trade center and the pentagon, needless to say, a date of enormous significance. we know this because one of the relatives who was interviewed by myself. and he said he was texting one of the victims on the night of september 11th because it was a
new york jet's football game going on and the tech texts stop abruptly. we know that tamerlan had recently, perhaps a year before, converted to a much more radical form of islam. we know brendan was a friend of his and he didn't show up at the funeral. we also know he went to russia for six months not too long afterwards. so you add all of these things together and there's a case where there's just so much coincidence involved, that investigators really need to take another look at that and that's what they're doing. >> yes, absolutely fascinating. you've run the marathon last week. what were your memories of that day given the appalling events of what happened? >> well, i was stopped about eight blocks from the finish line. i guess my thought now is i'm just very, very grateful that this year, unlike in previous
years, i didn't have anyone waiting for me at the finish line. there was no one i knew, no one i loved who was hurt or killed. so i'm very, very grateful for that. otherwise, it was just one of the most extraordinary days i've ever had and immediately started my reporting for the globe as soon as i had talked to a police officer and found out there were a couple of explosions and probably a couple fatalities. i was working for the globe straight through that evening until probably 10:30 at night. >> michael, thank you very much for joining me. >> sure. >> and we'll be right back.
tomorrow night, the wrong man. how a missing brown university student became part of the story in the search for the boston bombers. online rumors connecting the two spread like wild fire. many saw a resemiblens between the missing man and many suspects. all of this bringing more heartbreak to a family desperate for answers. i'll talk to the family exclusively. that's tomorrow night. now, anderson cooper.